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paul. >> pope john paul ii. >> yes, of course. the long twilight of john paul, his struggle with age and parkinson's disease, lingering effect of the 1981 assassination attempt are all played out in full public view, and john paul decided to use his illness and decline in a way as a teaching moment, that -- to show the world you can still be of value, still play an important role while being ill, suffering, and so on. that was john paul's particular way of handling the twilight of his life. benedict xvi, while i think certainly ahe certainly admiring john paul, thinks that's not the path that every pope takes. some of the difficulties the vatican faced in recent years. internal disarray relating to the leaked crisis. the damage imposed upon the public image of the church by the sex abuse scandals and so on, it's clear that that has taken a toll on benedict xvi, he has struggled with that personally and it may well be that the people who have seen the cumulative effect of that, that the church needs a new lease on life and a fresh
paul. >> pope john paul ii. >> yes, of course. the long twilight of john paul, his struggle with age and parkinson's disease, lingering effect of the 1981 assassination attempt are all played out in full public view, and john paul decided to use his illness and decline in a way as a teaching moment, that -- to show the world you can still be of value, still play an important role while being ill, suffering, and so on. that was john paul's particular way of handling the twilight of...
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john paul said no, i need you here. pope john paul ii died and then he became pope. benedict is a far shyer man, he's a gentle man, he's far more than intellectual. he never sucked in the oxygen of the crowd. he at times, ren sant. since he announced his abdication, i have been struck by how much he relieved he looks. he actually ad lib when he got up there. when i looked at his prepared text. heed a lib an aline, people say that the church is declining but i see the church as alive, because that crowd was filled with enthusiasm and energy yesterday. you know, you have seen when he met with some priests here in rome about a week ago, he was supposed to deliver a speech about the second vatican -- vatican ii, he was there at the time, that happened 50 years ago. he said no, i can't do that because of my advanced age. 85 has become his excuse to be more casual if you will and he said, no, i'll sit here and chat with you. he talked with 46 minutes without a note about what went on 50 years ago. so, clearly, his mind and those who know him and those who read his writings
john paul said no, i need you here. pope john paul ii died and then he became pope. benedict is a far shyer man, he's a gentle man, he's far more than intellectual. he never sucked in the oxygen of the crowd. he at times, ren sant. since he announced his abdication, i have been struck by how much he relieved he looks. he actually ad lib when he got up there. when i looked at his prepared text. heed a lib an aline, people say that the church is declining but i see the church as alive, because...
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john paul ii made a conscience decision to die in public. not to say look at me, look at me conforming myself to the passion and death and resurrection of jesus christ. benedict xvi has made a decision that the church needs something that he cannot give so he should get out of the way. he should retire into the background. that, as ann just indicated and liz mentioned and i mentioned and he mentioned, is another way to bear the cross of christ. and i think it was a very strikingly personal last statement to the church. i'm not leaving you. and thank you for not leaving me. >> we heard the loud applause there, the pope was delivering the message in spanish, the church has seen growth in latin america, seen growth in africa, leading to questions, father, about his success so, whether it could be someone who is from africa, from latin america, maybe even dare we say, north america. >> could well be. the church certainly has shifted, as you say, it's suffering in western europe, yet there are 61 cardinals from europe. the college of cardinals th
john paul ii made a conscience decision to die in public. not to say look at me, look at me conforming myself to the passion and death and resurrection of jesus christ. benedict xvi has made a decision that the church needs something that he cannot give so he should get out of the way. he should retire into the background. that, as ann just indicated and liz mentioned and i mentioned and he mentioned, is another way to bear the cross of christ. and i think it was a very strikingly personal last...
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6:00 was in not very good shape at all, john paul -- john paul xxiii, and pius, a number of them ended their reigns in ill health. maybe u.s. a better service to the church, one feels one can no longer fulfill his duties as benedict xvi said. perhaps it's better for the church to step down voluntarily. rather than to wait until death. >> back in 1989 and 1994, john paul ii had prepared we know to resign, if, in fact, he had some sort of condition or disease that would keep him from fulfilling his ministry, we have learned that the late pope's the person in charge of his affairs. incredibly unusualnusual. right to dan lothian at the white house. did they have a close relationship. a typical relationship that you would have between a pope and world leader? >> i think it can be described as a respectful relationship, and the two have met, on one time face to face as far as we're aware, and back in 2009, overseas to agana and moscow, met face to face for 25 minutes, talked about billions of dollars in aid to developing countries and much of their discussion, food aid and discussion centere
6:00 was in not very good shape at all, john paul -- john paul xxiii, and pius, a number of them ended their reigns in ill health. maybe u.s. a better service to the church, one feels one can no longer fulfill his duties as benedict xvi said. perhaps it's better for the church to step down voluntarily. rather than to wait until death. >> back in 1989 and 1994, john paul ii had prepared we know to resign, if, in fact, he had some sort of condition or disease that would keep him from...
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we've become accustomed to it with john paul and with benedict. now it's pretty much expected of him. i think that's right what liz said about him, the father quality of the pope. that's a great advantage to have. >> and as you also look at him -- and he looks like an 85-year-old man, and you realize the stress that must have been on him, certainly in the run-up to this and the decision that he finally decided to make. but just the wear and tear of preparing. we know that yesterday he had something of a down day. there's packing to be done. there are papers to be gone through. there are decisions to be made. and he will be going to castel gandolfo, which is the summer residence of the pope, where he will stay until a more permanent residence is finished. they have been doing renovations on the old monastery on the grounds of the vatican. he's someone, liz, who really -- it's not a job that he can go home at 5:00, and he puts his little time card in, and it ends. this is a man who for the last eight years, when most people would want to be retiring
we've become accustomed to it with john paul and with benedict. now it's pretty much expected of him. i think that's right what liz said about him, the father quality of the pope. that's a great advantage to have. >> and as you also look at him -- and he looks like an 85-year-old man, and you realize the stress that must have been on him, certainly in the run-up to this and the decision that he finally decided to make. but just the wear and tear of preparing. we know that yesterday he had...
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he was 5 years old, older now than when his predecessor pope john paul passed away. that is to be taken into consideration. some of the are cardinals here in the united states are reacting. we heard from cardinal timothy dolan in new york, he was elevated to that office by pope benedict. let's hear what he had to say. >> i would presume his esteem for the office as the successor of st. peter and the chief pastor of the (audio difficulty) still to come when 9news continues we will have new developments in the search for a rogue california cop accused of killing outside a wave >>> a 14-year-old is being charged as an adult in the murder of his seven-month-old sister. police say baby larissa was left from the care of her brother jonathan a aguilera. the teenager admitted covering her nose and her mouth in order to stop her from crying. he is due in court for a bond hearing this afternoon. >>> a $11 million reward is now being offered for help to capture a former los angeles police officer wanted for murder. christopher dorner is accused of killing three people to avenge
he was 5 years old, older now than when his predecessor pope john paul passed away. that is to be taken into consideration. some of the are cardinals here in the united states are reacting. we heard from cardinal timothy dolan in new york, he was elevated to that office by pope benedict. let's hear what he had to say. >> i would presume his esteem for the office as the successor of st. peter and the chief pastor of the (audio difficulty) still to come when 9news continues we will have new...
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john paul ii had more charisma. >> contra races were coming up -- controversy was coming up. i think he handled them with wisdom. >> the wise are normally the old people. >> time now to return our attention to some other international news. supporters are calling it a revolution, but critics are lashing out at the new eu agreement to cap bonuses. it is aimed at a re-piece of the financial crisis. >> those in favor say it will address public anger about the role played by the banks and the economic meltdown. those against it, notably britain's -- britons, say that it will drive talent out of europe. >> the talks took more than 10 months. negotiators managed to clinch the deal despite opposition from the uk. at present, bankers can receive bonuses of as much as 20 times their basic salary. under the new rules, which can come into effect next year, they could be -- capped at one year's salary. >> most important thing is that banks will be stabilized, that a are better able to withstand the crisis -- that they are better able to withstand the crisis. >> it shows we are implementi
john paul ii had more charisma. >> contra races were coming up -- controversy was coming up. i think he handled them with wisdom. >> the wise are normally the old people. >> time now to return our attention to some other international news. supporters are calling it a revolution, but critics are lashing out at the new eu agreement to cap bonuses. it is aimed at a re-piece of the financial crisis. >> those in favor say it will address public anger about the role played by...
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pope john paul ii said i need you with me. of course he did. he listened to john paul. so he's been well aware of his own fragility of his health for a while. >> reporter: and you know, the timing is also rather surprising. it is two days before ash wednesday, and the start of lent, a very holy day for catholics. the cardinal said in facts he's sure people around him knew that this was going to happen. and put a transition team in place. the cardinal says a conclave will take a month. but right now all of that timing is being worked out. suzanne. >> all right. deb, thank you. i appreciate it. >>> the former navy s.e.a.l. who reportedly fired the shot that killed osama bin laden is said to be furious with the u.s. military. he has no pension or medical insurance, and according to an investigative piece in esquire magazine called the man who shot and killed osama bin laden, the shooter who is not named, he told a friend, this is a quote here, he says if i get killed on this next deployment. i know my family will be taken care of. but if i come back and retire, i won't hav
pope john paul ii said i need you with me. of course he did. he listened to john paul. so he's been well aware of his own fragility of his health for a while. >> reporter: and you know, the timing is also rather surprising. it is two days before ash wednesday, and the start of lent, a very holy day for catholics. the cardinal said in facts he's sure people around him knew that this was going to happen. and put a transition team in place. the cardinal says a conclave will take a month. but...
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he was not john paul ii. john paul was such an immense figure. is that a fair point mr. moody is making? >> well, i think it is a fair point. i have nothing but the greatest admiration for john, and i think pope benedict knew that. what comes through about pope benedict is the humility in one interview he gave, long book interview, where he mentioned the possibility of resigning but he said i'm convinced there are great popes and small popes, and he was talking about john paul ii as a great pope, and himself as small pope, which is also strange because he is obviously a great intellectual. but he knew he didn't have either the energy or, if you will, the pizazz of john paul ii, the media satisfy iy. but what he wad was very genuine. he is a month in love with god, and a very humble one. i noticed on the trip to the u.s., and you see the stadium filled, and john paul would enjoy those as much as an actor enjoys a big crowd, and benedict was a little bit almost embarrassed. but there was something beautiful and endear about that. >> there were missteps and miscues along th
he was not john paul ii. john paul was such an immense figure. is that a fair point mr. moody is making? >> well, i think it is a fair point. i have nothing but the greatest admiration for john, and i think pope benedict knew that. what comes through about pope benedict is the humility in one interview he gave, long book interview, where he mentioned the possibility of resigning but he said i'm convinced there are great popes and small popes, and he was talking about john paul ii as a...
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john paul ii took wonderful walks here. benedict xvi i'm told is a much, much more private man, expected to spend a long time in his rooms here. he'll be here for about two months while they restore his home at the vatican where he will eventually spend the rest of his life. guys? >> all right, becky anderson, thank you very much. we'll check back in with you. >>> here to help us walk through today is monsignor rick hi hillgartner. i wanted to walk through what is going to happen today when the pope meets with the cardinals. can you walk us through that? >> sure. >> yesterday in st. peter's square there were upwards of 50,000 people or more giving that public witness. this will be the most with his closest collaborators over the years. the pope's personal collaborators are the bishops throughout the world and in a particular way it's the cardinals standing at the heart of those, many of the cardinals of the people who workday to day in the vatican who work with the pope on a regular basis. who see him week in, week out. the
john paul ii took wonderful walks here. benedict xvi i'm told is a much, much more private man, expected to spend a long time in his rooms here. he'll be here for about two months while they restore his home at the vatican where he will eventually spend the rest of his life. guys? >> all right, becky anderson, thank you very much. we'll check back in with you. >>> here to help us walk through today is monsignor rick hi hillgartner. i wanted to walk through what is going to happen...
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ratzinger, was very keenly aware of what happened to pope john paul ii. he talked to people about how his demise seemed somewhat of a dishonorable end to his papacy. he had in his mind already what type of glorious exit, to use the phrase, he may want in store for him. let's get some perspective as to what is coming out of the vatican as to why this is happening, what it means. john allen, our senior vatican analyst, joins us now. what do we know, john? >> reporter: what we know is that we are living through a day of enormous shock here in rome. not so much the pope benedict xvi chose to resign. he signaled two years ago that he would be open to doing that, but the fact that we had absolutely no indication this was coming today. precisely because of that, therefore, there are some enormous unanswered questions about how all of this is going to play out. i suppose the biggest questions would be, "a," what will the role of a retired pope be? will he continue to play any kind of public role? will he continue to exercise any influence on the future direction
ratzinger, was very keenly aware of what happened to pope john paul ii. he talked to people about how his demise seemed somewhat of a dishonorable end to his papacy. he had in his mind already what type of glorious exit, to use the phrase, he may want in store for him. let's get some perspective as to what is coming out of the vatican as to why this is happening, what it means. john allen, our senior vatican analyst, joins us now. what do we know, john? >> reporter: what we know is that...
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and what you have now is, you know, 2005, i was here when pope john paul ii died, and we had the conclave for pope benedict xvi election. now, at that time there was a lot of criticism that cardinal bernard law was coming here to take part in that conclave. at that time the vatican said that it's up to -- it's his duty, and he should come. now they're changing their tone somewhat about these others who are embroiled in these scandals and saying, well, it's up to him. they don't want now, here in the vatican, to take responsibility for these cardinals coming here. they're saying no, it's up to him. and obviously many of them were hoping that they wouldn't come. >> christiane amanpour working for us at the vatican and father albert cutie, thank you both for your input. >>> as we move along, here are two things you never want to hear in the same sentence, horse meat and ikea meatballs. it's happened and we'll explain after this break. card rewards are easy to remember with the bankamericard cash rewards credit card. earn 1% cash back everywhere, every time. [ both ] 2% back on groceries. [ a
and what you have now is, you know, 2005, i was here when pope john paul ii died, and we had the conclave for pope benedict xvi election. now, at that time there was a lot of criticism that cardinal bernard law was coming here to take part in that conclave. at that time the vatican said that it's up to -- it's his duty, and he should come. now they're changing their tone somewhat about these others who are embroiled in these scandals and saying, well, it's up to him. they don't want now, here...
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paul and who was here with me in rome when we covered the death of john paul. and carl, it is good to see you. and i'm wondering just about your general reaction now, eight years later, when many people thought this would be a placeholder pope, what are your thoughts today? >> i think that it was worse than a placeholder pope. that the church fell into a kind of morass because of its internal problems and the failure to modernize its institutions, the conclave that elected benedict probably could have seen this coming, it didn't. but the truly revolutionary act of this papacy is the resignation of benedict while he's still somewhat able. it breaks tradition and it's an extraordinary and brave act that perhaps will enable the next conclave to think differently about the future of the church. and i started doing some thinking and going back and looking at modern history of the church last night. maybe, they're always talking, the cardinals, about hoe the holy spirit may move them. maybe it's time for a new vatican council, such as pope john xxiii called in the mi
paul and who was here with me in rome when we covered the death of john paul. and carl, it is good to see you. and i'm wondering just about your general reaction now, eight years later, when many people thought this would be a placeholder pope, what are your thoughts today? >> i think that it was worse than a placeholder pope. that the church fell into a kind of morass because of its internal problems and the failure to modernize its institutions, the conclave that elected benedict...
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martha: at that time obviously the legacy of sphoap john paul was so -- the legacy of pope john paul was so huge. some those would be a transitional pope before the next person was ready to take over. we have a lot to go over with all of this in the course of the next couple hours. in the meantime we want to bring you this breaking news and fill you in on this situation unfolding in a courthouse in wilmington, delaware where we just heard shots have been fired. police are confirming there are several injuries in this case. the building is on lockdown. some people are still inside that building. we have a crew en route there. we'll bring you the latest information as soon as it becomes available. another day, another shooting story. the los angeles police department is offering a $1 million reward for information that would lead to the capture of a former police officer. christopher dorner accused of murdering three people in a rampage last week and included in those deaths is a police officer. here is video that shows dorner during this police training. we have not seen much of this
martha: at that time obviously the legacy of sphoap john paul was so -- the legacy of pope john paul was so huge. some those would be a transitional pope before the next person was ready to take over. we have a lot to go over with all of this in the course of the next couple hours. in the meantime we want to bring you this breaking news and fill you in on this situation unfolding in a courthouse in wilmington, delaware where we just heard shots have been fired. police are confirming there are...
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the other 50 were appointed by his predecessor, pope john paul ii. so, directly, no, he will not have any input into the conclave, but, indirectly, because he had such an important role in appointing those cardinals, he will have some role to play, but not directly, as i said. christi? >> ben wedemen, thank you so much as we look at live pictures there from vatican tv. >>> coming up in our 8:00 hour here, we'll take a closer look at the intrigue and the secrecy in the church, as well as hollywood's obsession with the vatican, you know, it's there. >>> i want to talk to you about what's happening back here at home. a blinding whiteout in detroit. this is on a major freeway. no immediate reports of fatal y fatalities. 44 vehicles that collided saturday on interstate 75. listen it to this couple who was caught in the middle of that i-75 smash up. >> it was just like somebody suddenly threw a white sheet across the windshield and we couldn't see anything. >> you could hear all the cars banging. >> detroit is not the only place getting snow. here's meteor
the other 50 were appointed by his predecessor, pope john paul ii. so, directly, no, he will not have any input into the conclave, but, indirectly, because he had such an important role in appointing those cardinals, he will have some role to play, but not directly, as i said. christi? >> ben wedemen, thank you so much as we look at live pictures there from vatican tv. >>> coming up in our 8:00 hour here, we'll take a closer look at the intrigue and the secrecy in the church, as...
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following the death of john paul he was elected pope back in 2005. he was 78, the oldest person to become pope in almost 300 years. little has been said publicly about his health, which made his resignation even more surprising since he said his strength has deteriorated recently. let's get some more now on the pope's health. our chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta, is joining us. sanjay, what do we know about the pope's health as of late? >> well, you know, not much that's new here, wolf. and i think that's part of the reason this came as a surprise to so many people. certainly we know his age, 85 years old, and as a physician there's all sorts of different things that you certainly worry about. cardiovascular disease, diabetes, cancer, stroke. he had a hemorrhage in his brain they think back in 1991 that may have been due to a stroke. but a long time ago, and there was no evidence of anything recently along those lines. he had a fall where he broke his wrist in 2009. and there's been pictures of him where he seems to maybe more increasing
following the death of john paul he was elected pope back in 2005. he was 78, the oldest person to become pope in almost 300 years. little has been said publicly about his health, which made his resignation even more surprising since he said his strength has deteriorated recently. let's get some more now on the pope's health. our chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta, is joining us. sanjay, what do we know about the pope's health as of late? >> well, you know, not much that's new...
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>> well, i think he sees the papacy very much in continuity of john paul ii. they were both men of the council. they were at vatican 2 and contributed and i think both saw an attempt to interpret vatican 2 properly. i would say that's the major contribution of pope benedict. he wanted to read vatican 2 as a an evangelical council, a council to get the message of the faith out to the wider world and i think in koont knewty with john paul and that's probably the major legacy. >> father, this will kick off sort of the ultimate insider political battle if you will. i can think of nothing less than transparent of the election. it's a cardinal sin to discuss it an they're told i guess going to hell to talk about what happens in that room. >> wow. >> i wonder if you could just take for sort of the laymen and women out there for the process. what is going to unfold in the week and months ahead to elect a new pope? >> of course, this is very unusual. we are not dealing with the death of a pope followed by a period of mourning and a number offer is moans and masses that
>> well, i think he sees the papacy very much in continuity of john paul ii. they were both men of the council. they were at vatican 2 and contributed and i think both saw an attempt to interpret vatican 2 properly. i would say that's the major contribution of pope benedict. he wanted to read vatican 2 as a an evangelical council, a council to get the message of the faith out to the wider world and i think in koont knewty with john paul and that's probably the major legacy. >>...
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a relative enigma compared to john paul ii, of course. an old fashioned man in modern times. and now the question for catholics and their church becomes what next. nbc's anne thompson is here with us, with part of that story. anne, good evening. >> good evening, brian. we're in such uncharted territory, that the vatican doesn't even know how pope benedict will be addressed after february 28th. when a pope dies, the conclave to elect his successor begins 15 days after his death. but now when it will start is just one of many mysteries in the wake of today's startling news. ♪ the cardinals, the men who will elect benedict's successor, were as surprised as the people in the pews. new york's cardinal timothy dolan on the "today" show. >> i'm as startled as the rest of you and anxious to find out exactly what's going on. >> reporter: and like the nation's cardinals, the faithful have many questions. >> maybe he's trying to do what's best for us as the church and he wants us to be led by, you know, a strong person who is of sound mind and body. >> reporter: some express the hope
a relative enigma compared to john paul ii, of course. an old fashioned man in modern times. and now the question for catholics and their church becomes what next. nbc's anne thompson is here with us, with part of that story. anne, good evening. >> good evening, brian. we're in such uncharted territory, that the vatican doesn't even know how pope benedict will be addressed after february 28th. when a pope dies, the conclave to elect his successor begins 15 days after his death. but now...
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john paul ii and benedict xvi further expanded and internationalized the college of cardinals. another factor for the conclave is the proliferation of the media, which challenges the vow of secrecy and perhaps also shapes the choices. inevitably, observers are making up their short lists of candidates, lists that have already been revised many times. and beyond the politics and the process and the pageantry, for the world's catholics, the conclave is ultimately a holy endeavor. i'm kim lawton, reporting. >> pope benedict's resignation is to take effect on february 28th. the college of cardinals is expected to convene in march, which means that a new pope will almost certainly have been chosen by easter. >>> in other news, in his state of the union speech this week, president obama addressed several issues of concern to many faith groups. the president pushed for stricter gun control, comprehensive immigration re and protections for senior and protections for senior citizens, the middle class and working families. some religious organizations praised obama's demand to raise the
john paul ii and benedict xvi further expanded and internationalized the college of cardinals. another factor for the conclave is the proliferation of the media, which challenges the vow of secrecy and perhaps also shapes the choices. inevitably, observers are making up their short lists of candidates, lists that have already been revised many times. and beyond the politics and the process and the pageantry, for the world's catholics, the conclave is ultimately a holy endeavor. i'm kim lawton,...
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. >> it is a valid opinion and that is what john paul ii did but i think if my opinion this is really an act of boldness on the part of this pope and, also, an act of great humility. >> the church will turn its attention to the successor, and a bay area man will be part of that decision. the cardinal will be in voting on the next pope. >> a lot of times someone who is appointed a cardinal which 10 great thing in itself never gets to vote for a pope so this is a big deal. >> the archbishop of san francisco released a written statement praising the pope for his service and the archdiocese says parishes will pray for the pope and his successor. >> a clergyman from california will vote even for the next pope, although he is banned from public duties because of the way he handle the sexual abuse cases. cardinal mahony headed the archdiocese of los angeles and the current archbishop banished him from duties after he found out he dismissed sexual abuse cases of priests. >> after the resignation on february 28, a secret group of cardinals begins in 15 to 20 days in manner. the vatican hopes t
. >> it is a valid opinion and that is what john paul ii did but i think if my opinion this is really an act of boldness on the part of this pope and, also, an act of great humility. >> the church will turn its attention to the successor, and a bay area man will be part of that decision. the cardinal will be in voting on the next pope. >> a lot of times someone who is appointed a cardinal which 10 great thing in itself never gets to vote for a pope so this is a big deal....
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he said, john paul led the church to the end because he was convinced that one doesn't come down from the cross. a lot of people interpreted that as essentially the pope taking the easy way out. he's elderly, he's tired and so he's going to retire. >> i think that would be a bad way to look at this. these are two decisions in conscious made by two men of conscious. john paul ii's decision to live his dying publically was his last great teaching moment and the world responded to that in a remarkable way. benedict xvi thought it wouldn't play out that way and he was not going to hold the stage simply to hold the stage. he was going to make a humble act of acceptance of what he believes is god's will. >> is he making the decision about when the conclave will start? there are a lot of people who will wait the 15 days. normally it would be a period of mourning, but the pope has not died. >> i find this frankly ratherer puzzling myself. i'm told the decision was made by the dean of the college of cardinals and the guy who runs the church, if you will. it does seem to me to be rather a long
he said, john paul led the church to the end because he was convinced that one doesn't come down from the cross. a lot of people interpreted that as essentially the pope taking the easy way out. he's elderly, he's tired and so he's going to retire. >> i think that would be a bad way to look at this. these are two decisions in conscious made by two men of conscious. john paul ii's decision to live his dying publically was his last great teaching moment and the world responded to that in a...
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paul. >> somewhere in a dictionary under the word evangelist is a picture of pope john paul ii. the basic diagnosis among many cardinals about benedict's papacy is he was a magnificent teaching pope but a mixed bag as a business manager. you asked where the fault lines are. first of all, you're never going to find any one guy who perfectly incarnates all these three things so which is the most important. what do we absolutely have to have and what can we settle for less than the idea. >> in terms of management and governability of the vatican and all the church's affairs, there's been financial scandals and the sex abuse scandal we have talked about for so long. a senior brazilian cardinal acknowledged of course this is going to be on the minds of the cardinals as they elect the next pope. that this business must be finished. would you say that's accurate? >> oh, absolutely. i, of course, have been talking to cardinals since this news broke. certainly i think, again, there are different ideas and different visions. but one thing that they would be almost unanimously saying is th
paul. >> somewhere in a dictionary under the word evangelist is a picture of pope john paul ii. the basic diagnosis among many cardinals about benedict's papacy is he was a magnificent teaching pope but a mixed bag as a business manager. you asked where the fault lines are. first of all, you're never going to find any one guy who perfectly incarnates all these three things so which is the most important. what do we absolutely have to have and what can we settle for less than the idea....
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virtually all these cardinals who are picked either by pope benedict or by pope john paul, i believe, somebody correct me if i'm wrong, the average age is somewhere in the 70s, low 70s. there aren't if to really drive your metaphor into the ground, a lot of blue state sort of cardinals in that list, and so there are not a lot of obviously progressive candidates on the list of potential popes. i don't think progressive conservative, however, is the right optic. i think the real question is when you get someone elected who actually is open to change and dialogue on some of these issues, on the all male celibate priesthood, if not on women priests. birth control is kind of a separate issue. the church ares until this contraception fight over the obama plan, really hasn't preached very much about it. it's not only the faithful who let it go. it's really the church itself who sort of accept that. there just aren't a lot of catholic families of 12 kids anymore in most of the west, and increasingly, not in the third world either. >> e.j., i want to bring in our panel here in new york, and be
virtually all these cardinals who are picked either by pope benedict or by pope john paul, i believe, somebody correct me if i'm wrong, the average age is somewhere in the 70s, low 70s. there aren't if to really drive your metaphor into the ground, a lot of blue state sort of cardinals in that list, and so there are not a lot of obviously progressive candidates on the list of potential popes. i don't think progressive conservative, however, is the right optic. i think the real question is when...
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elected in 2005, he succeeded john paul ii. there have been recent concerns about his health and he's needed help walking, but a vatican spokesperson insists he's not facing anything grave. the cardinals will elect his replacement and hope that can happen by holy week. >> they're looking for someone to preserve the court teachings of the church and be a faith in the church. >> reporter: holy watchers say there doesn't appear to be a front runner. many wonder if the time has come for a non-european leader. >> and more reaction now. an event so rare, it hasn't happened in 600 years. there is shock and appreciation for his bold move. tom fitzgerald gathered reaction from cardinals to parishioners. safe to say no one saw this coming. >> reporter: you're right. in fact, the cardinal told reporters here in washington that he recently visited the pope in rome and that the holy water gave no hint what -- father gave no hint what he was thinking about. after seven years, pope benedict xvi's relatively brief papacy, the end of which is b
elected in 2005, he succeeded john paul ii. there have been recent concerns about his health and he's needed help walking, but a vatican spokesperson insists he's not facing anything grave. the cardinals will elect his replacement and hope that can happen by holy week. >> they're looking for someone to preserve the court teachings of the church and be a faith in the church. >> reporter: holy watchers say there doesn't appear to be a front runner. many wonder if the time has come for...
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i know john paul ii, whom we knew quite well, went through a lot more ordeals and i think more health problems than pope benedict, but i don't -- i'm not in a position to criticize. i don't know what his status of health is. >> but if an american president retired on the grounds of exhaustion, they would be ridiculed, wouldn't it? >> i think it wasn't just exhaustion, but he wasn't able to handle the mental challenges to handle his job. it's up to him to make a decision. not been done much in the past. >> a lot of people when i said i was interviewing you. >> yes. >> said to me, as long as last time, said he's the greatest post president america has ever had. is that compliment or a veiled insult? >> i take it as a compliment. my wife would take it maybe as a veiled insult. we did a lot of good things when we brought peace to egypt. we formed an alliance with china after 35 years, we told the truth, we kept our country at peace for four years, which is a rare thing. >> incredibly rare. >> i think we -- peace and human rights. >> has the role of president changed dramatically do you th
i know john paul ii, whom we knew quite well, went through a lot more ordeals and i think more health problems than pope benedict, but i don't -- i'm not in a position to criticize. i don't know what his status of health is. >> but if an american president retired on the grounds of exhaustion, they would be ridiculed, wouldn't it? >> i think it wasn't just exhaustion, but he wasn't able to handle the mental challenges to handle his job. it's up to him to make a decision. not been...
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that was the theme of john paul ii. it's the theme of benedict xvi, and it's going to be a very interesting ride into the rest of the 21st century. >> thank you for your wisdom, and john garvey, thank you for joining us today. we really appreciate that. >> thank you very much. >> and looking ahead to the next 24 hours, the president planning to pivot back to the economy in tomorrow night's state of the yoon. we'll get a preview from the man who knows exactly what's going on behind the scenes at the white house. right away former white house communications director, speechwriter, don bair joining us next. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insuranc
that was the theme of john paul ii. it's the theme of benedict xvi, and it's going to be a very interesting ride into the rest of the 21st century. >> thank you for your wisdom, and john garvey, thank you for joining us today. we really appreciate that. >> thank you very much. >> and looking ahead to the next 24 hours, the president planning to pivot back to the economy in tomorrow night's state of the yoon. we'll get a preview from the man who knows exactly what's going on...
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paul a stage. he filled it not quite as largely but filled it very adequately with the authority of his teachings, not by power. >> reporter: and when we say listen to him, the world listens to the pope, whether it is benedict, john paul or whoever the next one might be. >> well, as a matter of fact, that's true. succession is the word. one succeeded the other succeeded the other on the basis of what we believe. >> reporter: we talked about it a lot and i talked to cardinal dolan about it. cardinal mccarrick and certainly cardinal dolan plays down any talk of him being the next pope but the fact of an american being the pope does not look like it's in the cards now. >> that's been said for a long time. but to be very honest, i think that the fact that we have taken the lead on the abuse crisis may well be -- may be the joker. it may well be that someone looks to having done extraordinary work in that field. >> reporter: and we see also now the pope who has arrived, looks like to me at the helipad a
paul a stage. he filled it not quite as largely but filled it very adequately with the authority of his teachings, not by power. >> reporter: and when we say listen to him, the world listens to the pope, whether it is benedict, john paul or whoever the next one might be. >> well, as a matter of fact, that's true. succession is the word. one succeeded the other succeeded the other on the basis of what we believe. >> reporter: we talked about it a lot and i talked to cardinal...
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you know john paul ii's greatest gift was his serenity in suffering. that was the greatest pulpit he ever prepared from. i believe humility is the greatest pulpit that benedict xvi has prepared from. he said to me once benedict things done with humility have the lasting effect have the greatest lasting effect. i believe he knows that in his heart. a courageous, novel decision but he's taken it also strategically in order that we are given a good pope to lead us now into the future. it's a sad moment for us but we now look forward to a new holy father. >> monseigneur anthony figuerdo director of the north american pontifical college. thank you very much, monseigneur. it is coming up on 6:00 p.m. in rome. we saw a beautiful shot of the sun setting in castel gandolfo. we see the long shadows of the early evening coming across st. peter's square. nor norah, i wonder as you watched this for the first time in 600 years, it was an amazing moment in history, what did you think as you thought of this pope leaving the papacy. >> incredibly historic. it was a sho
you know john paul ii's greatest gift was his serenity in suffering. that was the greatest pulpit he ever prepared from. i believe humility is the greatest pulpit that benedict xvi has prepared from. he said to me once benedict things done with humility have the lasting effect have the greatest lasting effect. i believe he knows that in his heart. a courageous, novel decision but he's taken it also strategically in order that we are given a good pope to lead us now into the future. it's a sad...
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pope benedict had big shoes to fill in 2005 when cardinals chose him to succeed john paul ii. one of his biggest tasks was responding to the priest sexual abuse scandal. >> indeed, i am deeply sorry. >> reporter: pope benedict issued an apology to victims and said the church made serious mistakes. today the pontiff called his choice reresign "a decision of great importance for the life of the church" and said he will dedicate the rest of his life to prayer. contend, to replace him include the archbishops of vienna and milan, cardinal timothy dolan of new york is a long shot. >> what happens next at the vatican? >> reporter: what happens next is that the vatican will announce a date for the conclave which is when the world's voting cardinals will come to rome to vote for the next pope. in the meantime, the pope says he will continue to work doing what he normally does. >> anna matranga live at the vatican, thank you so much. >>> and the pope's decision is drawing varied reactions from catholics here in san francisco. some are concerned about the timing while others are talking
pope benedict had big shoes to fill in 2005 when cardinals chose him to succeed john paul ii. one of his biggest tasks was responding to the priest sexual abuse scandal. >> indeed, i am deeply sorry. >> reporter: pope benedict issued an apology to victims and said the church made serious mistakes. today the pontiff called his choice reresign "a decision of great importance for the life of the church" and said he will dedicate the rest of his life to prayer. contend, to...
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one of the things we saw extraordinarily in the final days of pope john paul and for the election of this pope, was the number of people who came to st. peter's square who said i'm atheist, i'min agnostic. i'm drawn by the history. i'm drawn by the tradition that there is a person in the world when is supposed to stand for the good things, for the power of this role. so there we see him in the popemobile making what, as we heard from ann thompson, will be two rounds. i know you've seen this before, father barron. it is a unique experience. >> it is that indeed. i always think of pope from popeye. he's the father. and you're right. i think it goes beyond the catholic church. you're looking at the most important figure in the world from a symbolic standpoint. >> george, give me your thoughts as you watch the pope make his final round in his popemobile. >> chris, i'm actually thinking about our time together here in rome eight years ago. i believe it was you who asked me how i felt seeing joseph ratzinger come out on the logia of st. peter's, who i had known at that point for some 17 ye
one of the things we saw extraordinarily in the final days of pope john paul and for the election of this pope, was the number of people who came to st. peter's square who said i'm atheist, i'min agnostic. i'm drawn by the history. i'm drawn by the tradition that there is a person in the world when is supposed to stand for the good things, for the power of this role. so there we see him in the popemobile making what, as we heard from ann thompson, will be two rounds. i know you've seen this...
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. >> reporter: as a cardinal, joseph ratzinger was known as john paul ii's enforcer of religious doctrine. he did not like answering questions. here's abc's brian ross asking him about a sexual abuse case in 2002. >> reporter: the question was -- >> come to me when the moment is given. but not yet. >> reporter: in his almost eight-year-olds as pope, he would sometimes play the piano. he always wore his prada-style red shoes. but his passion was preaching the gospel. he's never enjoyed being an administrator and he paid a price for that. his papacy will be remembered for its scandals. those endless sexual abuse coverups that cost more than $3 billion to settle. a string of financial scandals. benedict tried and failed to clean up corruption. and the notorious vatileaks scandal, with daily exposes in italian newspapers, a vatican back-stabbing in intrigue. he may have been the first pope to tweet, but as the leader, he tried to hold back the forces of modernity, refusing to expand the role of women. now, though, he is accepting the reality of the modern world. and the catholic church enters
. >> reporter: as a cardinal, joseph ratzinger was known as john paul ii's enforcer of religious doctrine. he did not like answering questions. here's abc's brian ross asking him about a sexual abuse case in 2002. >> reporter: the question was -- >> come to me when the moment is given. but not yet. >> reporter: in his almost eight-year-olds as pope, he would sometimes play the piano. he always wore his prada-style red shoes. but his passion was preaching the gospel. he's...
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he became pope after john paul ii died, but he never seemed to enjoy it the way john paul ii did, who was an actor. benedict is a scholar, a theologian, an intellectual, and today you could see the humility that those who know him very well say have always marked this 85-year-old man. >> certainly describing himself as a pilgrim is really extraordinary, and you get the feeling that the crowd, the audiences were responding to him in an emotional way that they hadn't previously. that i guess it's the moment the history, but also the sadness. i mean, this is a very bittersweet moment. >> well, it's -- it is. that's exactly the way to describe it. you know, it's interesting in st. peters square, they had the big jumbotrons out there, and people were gathered around and were actually silent in st. peters square watching what happened, and the last time i heard that kind of silence in st. peters square it was when they announced the death of john paul ii. you never heard a cell phone go off. you never heard anybody have a cell phone conversation, and on the in st. peters square where the he
he became pope after john paul ii died, but he never seemed to enjoy it the way john paul ii did, who was an actor. benedict is a scholar, a theologian, an intellectual, and today you could see the humility that those who know him very well say have always marked this 85-year-old man. >> certainly describing himself as a pilgrim is really extraordinary, and you get the feeling that the crowd, the audiences were responding to him in an emotional way that they hadn't previously. that i...
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benedict i think also probably stepped down, because, remember, he watched john paul ii's demise and watched his powers fade, and what happens when a pope declines in power, the bureaucracy in inevitably increases. and i don't think he particularly enjoyed what was happening aat that time and may be seeing tremors again. and he decided to go ahead and retire early. >> let's stay on successors for a moment. any possibility that an american would -- we have dolan on there. is there any possibility we could see an american pope? >> i love cardinal dolan. i have known him since he was a priest. if i could elect a pope, i would elect dolan. but half of these election fors are europeans, the other half are predominantly africans and asians. the likelihood of them electing an american pope is remote. america has such a huge influence on the world to give them a papacy would be a bridge too far. that was the mind-set into the last conclave. look for a european, right now, if you were -- you know, begging me to give you an answer, i would probably say look at cardinal oullette from canada, wh
benedict i think also probably stepped down, because, remember, he watched john paul ii's demise and watched his powers fade, and what happens when a pope declines in power, the bureaucracy in inevitably increases. and i don't think he particularly enjoyed what was happening aat that time and may be seeing tremors again. and he decided to go ahead and retire early. >> let's stay on successors for a moment. any possibility that an american would -- we have dolan on there. is there any...
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pope john paul ii was 84 when he died. wlerned after he died he considered twice resigning because of his ill health. this sets up a political process with the conclave electing the next pope. dan harris joining us on this discussion. it was a quick process to anoint pope benedict. how does the process work? >> this is a fascinating, intricate, ancient process. a brief look at how it works. take a look. for the past 10 year, papal elections have been held in the vatican's sistine chapel. they're totally cut off from the outside world. all banned. once the election commence, they'll sleep and eat in the santa marta house in private rooms, each with a bathroom. about 70 people are awe loied in besides the cardinals. who can vote for the pope? usually those under the age of 80 at the time of the pope's death. so at this time benedict is still alive. will he be part of it or will his age keep him out? any catholic male, not married, is eligible. for more than 1,000 year, it's almost always been a cardinal. the ballots are secr
pope john paul ii was 84 when he died. wlerned after he died he considered twice resigning because of his ill health. this sets up a political process with the conclave electing the next pope. dan harris joining us on this discussion. it was a quick process to anoint pope benedict. how does the process work? >> this is a fascinating, intricate, ancient process. a brief look at how it works. take a look. for the past 10 year, papal elections have been held in the vatican's sistine chapel....
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. >> seeing a german succeed pope john paul ii was a victory for our country. in benedick's ministry, they combine high philosophical teaching with a straight forward manner of speaking and humanitarian kindness. chancellor merkel also commented on benedict's decision expressing understanding or his motivations. she praised him as saying that, as pope, he committed himself to interfaith dialogue. >> restrengthen the ties to the eastern orthodox churches. he reached out to jews and muslims. . xvi is and will remain one of the greatest religious figures of our time. >> i cannot imagine this. a pope is elected to serve until the end of his life. it is a decision that will perhaps make room for younger generation to take office. >> for the most part, his move received strong support from the german capital. >> for more, we're joined now by our religious affairs correspondent. john, you have and our correspondent during the entire time of his role. did the news, as a surprise? >> not entirely, sabrina. 10 years ago, he said in public that he thought it was appropria
. >> seeing a german succeed pope john paul ii was a victory for our country. in benedick's ministry, they combine high philosophical teaching with a straight forward manner of speaking and humanitarian kindness. chancellor merkel also commented on benedict's decision expressing understanding or his motivations. she praised him as saying that, as pope, he committed himself to interfaith dialogue. >> restrengthen the ties to the eastern orthodox churches. he reached out to jews and...